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bilkay
Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 2323
Location: Hopewell Junction
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 Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:32 am Post subject: Oops! Obama says 'my Muslim faith' |
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Oops! Obama says 'my Muslim faith'
He was discussing false rumors when he slipped up
A verbal slip by Barack Obama, in which he made a reference to "my Muslim faith," unleashed a barrage of Internet attacks Sunday.
The Democratic presidential candidate appeared on ABC's "This Week" with George Stephanopoulos, which aired Sunday morning.
Obama was -- ironically -- addressing the false rumors that he is Muslim. He suggested that Republican rival John McCain was behind them, according to ABC News. (more . . .)
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"Civilisation is an interlude between Ice Ages, the next one is already overdue; perhaps global warming has arrived just in tine to save us." ~ Will and Ariel Durant in Story of Civilisation |
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bilkay
Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 2323
Location: Hopewell Junction
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: |
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Even after this "slip," the Obama media still refer to the "rumors" as unqualified false. If this was a Republican trying to refute false rumors, they'd put "false" in "scare-quotes" for sure.
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"Civilisation is an interlude between Ice Ages, the next one is already overdue; perhaps global warming has arrived just in tine to save us." ~ Will and Ariel Durant in Story of Civilisation |
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Lenin_N_Things
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 7091
Location: The Right Side Of Poughkeepsie
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Doesn't matter, he's going down.
See my post about this and other major flip flops, including continuing "tax cuts for the rich."
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 Obama should get every bit of the respect and cooperation the outgoing president got. |
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walliman
Site Administrator
Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 2621
Location: Village of Wappingers Falls
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Where’s the mainstream media coverage???
How can anybody successfully argue that the mainstream media (in this country) isn't in bed with the Demcratic Party... Give me a break!!! |
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bilkay
Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 2323
Location: Hopewell Junction
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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When Obama says the rumors are false, the media drop the matter and take his word without question. That's in stark contrast to how they tread Republicans.
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"Civilisation is an interlude between Ice Ages, the next one is already overdue; perhaps global warming has arrived just in tine to save us." ~ Will and Ariel Durant in Story of Civilisation |
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chanop
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 172
Location: Northern Dutchess
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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"Let's not play games," he said. "What I was suggesting -- you're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith. And you're absolutely right that that has not come."
Mr. Stephanopoulos interrupted with, "Christian faith."
"My Christian faith," Mr. Obama said quickly. "Well, what I'm saying is that he hasn't suggested that I'm a Muslim. And I think that his campaign's upper echelons have not, either. What I think is fair to say is that, coming out of the Republican camp, there have been efforts to suggest that perhaps I'm not who I say I am when it comes to my faith -- something which I find deeply offensive, and that has been going on for a pretty long time." |
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bilkay
Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 2323
Location: Hopewell Junction
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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Freudian slip?
I can't imagine a Christian ever allowing those words to roll off his tongue.
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"Civilisation is an interlude between Ice Ages, the next one is already overdue; perhaps global warming has arrived just in tine to save us." ~ Will and Ariel Durant in Story of Civilisation |
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kbny
Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 896
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Well there have been plenty of times over the centuries that things have rolled of Christian tongues that many would be surprised at... In fact you should replace Christian with any number of traditional and non traditional views of religion... |
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bilkay
Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 2323
Location: Hopewell Junction
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| kbny wrote: | | Well there have been plenty of times over the centuries that things have rolled of Christian tongues that many would be surprised at... In fact you should replace Christian with any number of traditional and non traditional views of religion... |
Examples?
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"Civilisation is an interlude between Ice Ages, the next one is already overdue; perhaps global warming has arrived just in tine to save us." ~ Will and Ariel Durant in Story of Civilisation |
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Lenin_N_Things
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 7091
Location: The Right Side Of Poughkeepsie
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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That will be tough for him, he had a feeling they said it.
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Obama should get every bit of the respect and cooperation the outgoing president got. |
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kbny
Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 896
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| bilkay wrote: | | kbny wrote: | | Well there have been plenty of times over the centuries that things have rolled of Christian tongues that many would be surprised at... In fact you should replace Christian with any number of traditional and non traditional views of religion... |
Examples? |
Examples of religios intolerance from all sides...
http://www.religioustolerance.org/relintol3.htm
===============================================
Religious intolerance outside North America:
In spite of UN declarations on religious freedom, there is still massive room for improvement in some countries.
Wars: Religious intolerance is a driving force behind many of the world's armed conflicts and centers of civil unrest. A few current and recent conflicts are listed below: Protestants vs. Roman Catholics in Northern Ireland
Muslims, vs. Serbian Orthodox Christians in Kosovo
Christians, Jews, and Muslims in the Middle East
Aboriginals, Hindus, Muslims, and Sikhs in India
Christians and Muslims in East Timor
Christians and Muslims and Animists in Nigeria
Christians and Muslims in the southern Philippine islands
Hindus and Buddhists in Sri Lanka
Christians, Muslims and Animists in Sudan
We maintain a listing of current civil wars and civil unrest which are at least partly based on religion.
Missionaries: Religious missionaries are severely persecuted in some areas of the world. Most victims are Christians; most perpetrators are national governments.
Conversion: Some countries have declared that a religious conversion from the state religion to another belief system is a criminal act, sometimes punishable by death. These laws are most frequently found in Muslim countries, although they are very rarely applied.
Overview: Robert Seiple of the U.S. State Department reported to a congressional hearing on 1999-OCT-6 on religious freedom around the world. Unfortunately, the report did not include religious abuses inside the U.S. They found that seven countries exhibited "particularly severe" violations of religious freedom over the last year: Afghanistan's previous government, led by the Taliban, persecuted and killed Shiite Muslims in programs of mass murder that meet some definitions of genocide. The police often impose "severe physical punishment and imprisonment for deviations from codes of worship and dress."
Myanmar (Burma) has imprisoned Buddhist monks who promote human and political rights.
China suppresses unregistered religious activity "through harassment, prolonged detention and incarceration in prison or 'reform-through-labor' camps." 4
Iran seriously persecutes the Baha'i Faith by imprisonment of its members, denial of the right to assemble, and confiscating or desecrating their holy places.
Iraq arbitrarily imprisons, and murders some individuals from their Shi'a Muslim minority.
Serbia's government (primarily composed of Serbian Orthodox Christians) killed, tortured, raped and forced the emigration of ethnic Albanians (mostly Muslims) in Kosovar.
Sudan's government has engaged in killing, arbitrary imprisonment, violence, and forced conversions of members of minority faiths, including Christianity, Aboriginal religions, and minority Muslim groups. 1,2
The Religious Freedom Act requires the President to react to this report by selecting "from 15 policy responses that range from private diplomatic protest to economic sanctions."
We have prepared a review of religious intolerance in various countries. It is not intended to be complete or balanced. It is a random sampling of some of the most important events that have been covered in the media in recent years.
Religious intolerance in North America:
The wall of separation between church and state does not prevent judges and legislators from attempting to eliminate the rights of faith groups that they do not like:
In 1986, Senator Jessie Helms (R, NC) introduced a bill in Congress to remove tax exempt status from existing Wiccan groups and prevent any new groups from being recognized. It never made it out of committee.
Family court judges in the U.S. and Canada occasionally discriminate in custody matters against the parent of minority, high demand faith groups, such as Jehovah's Witnesses.
Various attempts have been made to modify the constitution in order to permit prayer in the public schools. This would have students recite prayers of the dominant religion. Students who follow minority religions would be given the options of either violating their own beliefs or risk later harassment and violence from other students.
Society has made much progress in the past few decades:
With the repeal of oppressive laws, Native Americans are now able to conduct their traditional ceremonies.
The exclusion of Jews from membership in golf clubs and similar organizations is much less common than in the past.
A person no longer has to believe in the existence of a personal deity in order to be a conscientious objector to military service. (However, the Canadian government only extends charitable status to religious groups if they teach a belief in a God.)
Some local ministerial organizations now include non-Christians.
J.F. Kennedy became the first Roman Catholic President of the US. The religious faith of the Prime Ministers of Canada seemed to be of little interest to anyone prior to 2006. The Evangelical Christian faith of the present Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, is of considerably greater interest to the media.
Ritual consumption of peyote during some Native American rituals is permitted.
Native Elders are now generally given the same rights as Christian and Jewish clergy during prison visits.
Roman Catholic children are no longer taught that Protestants will go to eternal punishment in hell when they die; most Protestant children are no longer told that all Roman Catholics will automatically go to hell.
The constitutions of the US and Canada guarantee religious freedom to all citizens, yet many hurdles remain to be overcome:
Atheists are denied certain fundamental rights in some States. No Atheist could reasonably expect to be elected to any political office because of prejudice.
Children are occasionally seized from homes because of some social workers' misunderstanding of their parents' religion.
Parents are denied access to their children because of some judges' beliefs about the parents' faith.
Leaders of some faith groups (e.g. Neopagan) are not recognized as clergy during prison visitation
Some faith groups are not allowed to perform marriages. A common method of exclusion is for state or provincial governments to require the group to have been in existence for long periods before their clergy can marry people.
The Socialist premier of the province of British Columbia in Canada refused on religious grounds to authorize election papers for a candidate of a minority faith who was nominated for the Provincial Legislature. Threatened with a lawsuit that he could not possibly win, he apologized for his act of bigotry.
Followers of certain faiths are only able to celebrate their rituals safely in certain areas of North America. They fear persecution and attacks by Christians who misunderstand their benign, Earth-based faith. These include Wiccans, Druids, and other Neopagans. Much of this hatred is based upon a beliefs held over from the Middle Ages.
Representative Barr and a coalition of about a dozen conservative Christian agencies promoted a boycott of the U.S. army in an effort to terminate the religious freedoms of Neopagans.
Religious tolerance does not seem to be heavily promoted in North America. Although there are untold numbers of:
anti-racism Web sites devoted to racial harmony and tolerance,
anti-sexism Web sites devoted to equal rights for women,
anti-homophobia Web sites devoted to equal rights for gays, lesbians and bisexuals,
Sponsored link:
Some random examples of intolerance:
A few more detailed examples might be useful. The following are not presented as a complete or balanced list. Rather, it consists of just a few examples that we have stumbled across:
Television: This is a major source of intolerance. Vision TV's "Mosaic" service in Canada features "paid time programs from a variety of faith groups and broadcast ministries". Because Vision broadcasts programs from all types of religions and faith groups, one can differentiate between those groups which are relatively free from hatred and misinformation from those which often exhibit intolerance. We have been given access to data collected by the Wiccan Information Network's Ontario Coordinator. He found that of approximately 35 episodes in the mid 1990's that included vicious religious intolerance: 3% originated from a non-Christian program (An Islamic program targeting secularists)
0% originated from main-line or liberal Christian programs
97% originated from Evangelical or Fundamentalist Christian programs. Targets were (in decreasing order of frequency) followers of non-Christian religions, homosexuals, followers of non-Evangelical Christian religions, political liberals, working mothers, etc.
Some of this intolerance is quite repulsive, and included:
a call for the U.S. Federal Government to exterminate all followers of a specific faith group
a statement that the leaders of a certain religion were plotting to kill all of Christian leaders in America
a statement that it is the goal of Islam to give all Americans two choices: to convert immediately to their religion or have your head chopped off
that followers of a particular faith group routinely torture and kill babies, and commit other unspeakable crimes.
We find this result to be curious and self-defeating for conservative Christians. On one hand, they are committed to fulfilling the Great Commission which is to preach the Gospel to all the world. At the same time, they are broadcasting so much hatred against various groups that many "non-believers" are becoming resistant to the message.
A government regulatory body renewed Vision's license in the 1990s with the expectation that they would reduce the amount of religious bigotry on its network. They seem to have cleaned up their act in recent years.
Ritual Abuse Seminars We attended a ritual abuse seminar in 1995-MAY and have analyzed the messages delivered at two others. Groups named by the seminar leaders as ritual abusers and murderers of children include: members of a men's fraternal organization;
members of small Christian, Jewish, and Pagan religious groups;
persons who lead 12 step, mutual-support and self-help groups ;
criminal gangs.
None of this is true. Ritual abuse of the type described during the seminar simply does not exist. One form of ritual abuse, and even manslaughter, does exist in North America. It happens during Christian exorcisms and typically results in one death per year. However, all of the ritual abuse seminars that we have tracked do not mention it; they only describe the non-existent varieties of ritual abuse.
Religious Books: Again, we have consulted the records of the Wiccan Information Network's Ontario Coordinator. He found that: Religious dictionaries by main-line and liberal Christian authors contain some errors when referring to Neopagan religions. However, these appear to be honest mistakes and were caused by lack of familiarity with those faiths. 100% of the authors responded to letters sent to them which explained their errors.
Many books by conservative Christian authors about Neopagan religions were heavily biased, and contained a great deal of misinformation. All of the reviewed books that described personal involvement by the authors with Satanic groups were clearly hoaxes. Presented as a documentary expose of real events, they were clearly works of fiction. 5% of these authors responded to letters sent to them.
Desecration of Cultural and Religious Heritage A photographer was traveling through the four corners region in the US. This is the area where Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona and Utah meet. He came across a troop of Mormon Boy Scouts with hammers and chisels who were defacing centuries-old native petroglyphs (rock carvings) on a rock face. The horrified photographer asked the troop leader why they were destroying priceless native history. The leader replied that the Mormon church taught that the petroglyphs were Pagan symbols of Satanic origin. They felt that it was their religious duty to eliminate them for all time.
Note: This action was a violation of the behavioral rules of the Boy Scouts Association rules and of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The example is not meant to criticize either organization, but was intended to show how members of groups misinterpret the rules of their own groups.
Attacks on Religious Leaders Singer Sinead O'Connor appeared on "Saturday Night Live" on 1992-OCT-3, and sang a protest song which implied that victims of racism, child abuse and other forms of victimization have a legitimate right to fight back by any means, including war. At the end of the song, she held up a photograph of Pope John II. She tore it into pieces, saying "Fight the real enemy."
References:
Religion Today news summary for 1999-OCT-7
"U.S. lists China among worst violators of religious freedom," Newsroom, 1999-OCT-7 at: http://www.newsroom.org/
Copyright © 1997 to 2006 by Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance
Last update: 2006-SEP-07
Author: B.A. Robinson
=============================================== |
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kbny
Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 896
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| bilkay wrote: | | kbny wrote: | | Well there have been plenty of times over the centuries that things have rolled of Christian tongues that many would be surprised at... In fact you should replace Christian with any number of traditional and non traditional views of religion... |
Examples? |
So please Bigotbill, as a self professed agnostic, please don't let facts get in your way. |
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kbny
Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 896
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| chanop wrote: | "Let's not play games," he said. "What I was suggesting -- you're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith. And you're absolutely right that that has not come."
Mr. Stephanopoulos interrupted with, "Christian faith."
"My Christian faith," Mr. Obama said quickly. "Well, what I'm saying is that he hasn't suggested that I'm a Muslim. And I think that his campaign's upper echelons have not, either. What I think is fair to say is that, coming out of the Republican camp, there have been efforts to suggest that perhaps I'm not who I say I am when it comes to my faith -- something which I find deeply offensive, and that has been going on for a pretty long time." |
chanop... What do you think will happen? Personally I have a feeling that a 'Swiftboat' like group will do the dirty work, but McCain and his main handlers will never get the dirt on themselves... What do you think? BTW, this is an honest question, not being sarcastic, trying to keep this thread on topic.... |
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chanop
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 172
Location: Northern Dutchess
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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First of all, I put that thread up more in defense of Obama. It was taken out of context. He was clearly stating that the McCain camp has been good about not calling him a muslim and he muffled his words a bit. The entire muslim thing is going to be thrown at him until the end, even if he were at the end of a 2nd presidency term.
As far as Swift-boaters.......I'll just leave this here:
http://www.jedreport.com/2008/09/the-best-daily-show-episode-ev.html
First Video.
Sorry, I'm a sucker for Stewart/Colbert |
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Lenin_N_Things
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 7091
Location: The Right Side Of Poughkeepsie
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Notice
No jihads "death to all infidels" or "death to America"
I guess that isn't "intolerance"
_________________
Obama should get every bit of the respect and cooperation the outgoing president got. |
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